2.6.10
on January 16, 2026
at 3:00 am
discovering the concept of Being Hangry before the invention of the wheel
Aurora
A fantasy webcomic. Updates M-W-F.
discovering the concept of Being Hangry before the invention of the wheel
WOO! 38 CENTURIES? WOW
For mobile readers.
Alt-text: meeeeeeemoryyyyyyy…… all alone in the moooooonliiiiight…
Image source: heart
Tumblr text: Some say many years ago, before Joseph Rudeboy was Smokin’ Joe…
Bluesky text: volcanos were my number one fear as a child so this arc has been very therapeutic for me
WOO! Tom Cardy reference!!!
. Kendal opens his eyes, looking at Rakhn, as the god says, “To think a mortal could steal what I could not.” He sighs, remembering. “It had never been truly mine, you understand. My people had built their civilization around it before I first manifested. It was a sourceless warmth that took no fuel — a mercy in the icy winds and waters. I tended to my fields and flocks and braved the bitter winters while my people sheltered in the Fireseed’s glow.
. “Then one day the fire was called, and in response it called again. And everywhere, it changed.
. “Do you know what it is, godling? To be hollowed out in a bare instant? All that I was — my verdant hills, my flocks, my gentle hearth–
Gone in the beat of a heart.
. “My people sheltered in the shallow waters. In them, though they did not know it yet, the same change was brewing; the fire growing stronger — more alive. But in the moment, all they knew was terror at my madness.
. “I had never before felt the overwhelming power of a heart’s desire. I cared nothing for the needs of my people or the cruel winter’s cold. The Fireseed would be consumed in the furnace of my being, and I would be made whole.
” Its priestess dissuaded me,” Rakhn says, remembering the day. Crawling toward the Fireseed, flames sweeping through the air around it, drawn toward it. Cracks like lava creeping across his skin as the island changed… then an Ignan bursting through it, eyes like flame, hand grown to large claws of yellow fire, the flames crawling through rock. “Perhaps it is easier for a mortal to master a heart gone mad.
“Thank you for reminding me, godling,” Rakhn says with a slight smile. “In only thirty-eight centuries… I had nearly forgotten her face.”
Lore! I love lore!
Wait. Wait. Waitwaitwait.
A female priestess of an Ignan society. One present at the invocation of Fire’s truename. One with blazing eyes and a hand wreathed in flame…
Could this be a Crucible? One of, if not the first ones?
Perhaps even the “highly unusual Fire mage” the Soulshaper monks hosted? (1.19.11) The author of the “Treatise on Soulfire?”
That’s what I was thinking! Went looking for this comment as soon as I read the last panel.
I doubt she’s the one who went to the soulshaper monks. This happened 3’800 years ago, and crucibles are at least common enough to be a known legend among other Ignan groups. I’d think it’s more likely to have been a more recent crucible than to assume that the soulshaper monks have had a continuous archive for longer than the Paladins have existed.
The Paladins have existed since before the ancient civilization fell. Remember, that book Erin was reading at the archives was from 4,000 years ago. The Paladins predate the discovery of Fire’s truename.
Red said on her tumblr that the priestess wasn’t an Ignan: https://www.tumblr.com/comicaurora/782917011370016768/what-was-rakhn-like-pre-volcano-fication?source=share.
Unless I’ve misread, no, I don’t think so. I believe the post states the mage who discovered Fire’s truename wasn’t Ignan. The priestess of Rakhn’s people, however, would have faced accelerated alteration from exposure to the Fireseed, much like the rest of her people at the time.
That’s referring to the mage that invoked Fire’s true name, not the priestess.
Quote from this same post:
“The mage who invoked Fire’s truename and awakened it was not one of the Rakhn Ignans, so [Rakhn’s people] didn’t know what was happening until the island exploded. Fortunately at that moment all of [Rakhn’s people] also spontaneously became fire mages, ***except for the handful who were already fire mages who instead transformed into beings of pure fire.***”
Sounds like that might have been the beginning of Ignans *and* Crucibles?
https://comicaurora.tumblr.com/post/667672258672787456/how-does-caliban-generally-feature-into-ignan
Ignan culture actually predates the invocation of Fire’s truename.
Red said on Discord that the discoverer of Fire’s truename was an Ignan – just not an Ignan from Rakhn.
Considering that he has Vash’s memories, I think Kendal can indeed relate to the experience of being hollowed out in a bare instant.
Kendal “We’re not so different, you and I’
LMAO
Oh boy. A fire buddy. My first thought was “Baby collector?” But… no. Too spicy, too orange. Longshot97’s comment has merit to i- on both accounts. Art has been consumed. I eep
Equal but opposite of “Everywhere I look I see his face”.
Also:
“Hearts on fire” by Hammerfall
“We saw the writings on the wall
When he then ruled above us all
Tormented, we still heard the call
‘Cause seasons change
But we are still the same
Even though the cold winds blow
The fire burns inside
[Chorus]
Hearts on fire, hearts on fire
Burning, burning with desire
Hearts on fire, hearts on fire
Burning, burning with desire
Hearts on fire, hearts on fire
Burning, burning with desire
Burning for the steal
Hearts on fire”
So I’m assuming that “a heart gone mad” is probably the crucible form and the woman there is probably the crucible erin mentioned in 1.19.something. why did rakhn blow up when the fire’s true name was invoked ? I’ve got no idea , I would like to listen to everyone’s thoughts on this. Did rakhn become a crucible of sorts for some reason ? The term ” same change was brewing” is interesting, did they ALL become crucibles ?
I dont think Rakhan became a crucible, it seems to be an incredibly rare thing to be, and so far we only know of mortals who have the power. I do find the line about the fire calling interesting. If the visuals are to be believed, it seems a mage wrote a rune kn the fire seed, which activated it. This makes sense from an in world magic point, as the runes are the language of the primordials, and the fire seed is one of the hearts of the primordial Fire, the heart is responding to its name beging called. My question is who activated it? There had to be a reason for it to suddenly explode, and it seems that someone carved a rune in to it. My bet is on the Collector. She is old as balls , and would have an interest in how primordials work due to her connection to Life. And even though she is not a fire mage, Id argue that she could do the same thing with the fire sead, that Falst did with his green rock (forgot the name for the thing
My crack theory would be that the Seed was a Piece of Unusual Size of the ancient fire primordial. When someone Said its Name, that unusually large piece reacted more strongly. I don’t think that I would call him a crucible, though the priestess that stopped his erupting almost certainly was. And, I’d even go so far as to agree that the people living there did all become Crucibles, albeit perhaps more “stable” ones, due to the source of their change compared to Dainix’s.
Well, it’s not really a crack theory. More like a fact. Fireseeds seemed to be some kind of organ for the Fire Primordial that he used to draw his body back together because fire is, y’know, amorphous. The fireseeds were dormant up until Fire’s First Invocation. In that moment, every fireseed on the planet flared back into activity, hence leading to volcanoes forming around them from all the fire gravitating towards them.
I think “a heart gone mad” just means that he was consumed by his desire to consume the fire seed – to the point that he felt like he had gone mad (and, I mean, for a god to not care about the survival of his own people, he kind of Had gone mad).
I definitely agree that lady is the referenced crucible and that she is probably the author of “Treatise on Soulfire.”
I think that Rakhn blew up physically in flames when his island was destroyed by a volcano bc gods (and I’m gonna phrase this terribly) are a product of their realm and the people who inhabit it. So when his realm was so utterly and drastically changed, he was too. I definitely do not think he became a crucible; I think he just changed very rapidly due to his landscape’s sudden and extreme change.
I think that his people would not have had to shelter in the waters if they all had become crucibles so I think that’s Highly unlikely to have happened. I’m also unsure what that phrase means, but maybe it’s that they became more adapted to Rakhn’s changed state of being??? Idk, I would also love other inputs!
I also think that maybe this Might have been when the sekrei (idk how to spell that) “sank below the waves” and joined the merfolk. Idk, maybe! Could be a fun bit of lore! Esp bc we Just learned about that underwater festival
I think “a heart gone mad” just means that he was consumed by his desire to consume the fire seed – to the point that he felt like he had gone mad (and, I mean, for a god to not care about the survival of his own people, he kind of Had gone mad).
I definitely agree that lady is the referenced crucible and that she is probably the author of “Treatise on Soulfire.”
I think that Rakhn blew up physically in flames when his island was destroyed by a volcano bc gods (and I’m gonna phrase this terribly) are a product of their realm and the people who inhabit it. So when his realm was so utterly and drastically changed, he was too. I definitely do not think he became a crucible; I think he just changed very rapidly due to his landscape’s sudden and extreme change.
I think that his people would not have had to shelter in the waters if they all had become crucibles so I think that’s Highly unlikely to have happened. I’m also unsure what that phrase means, but maybe it’s that they became more adapted to Rakhn’s changed state of being??? Idk, I would also love other inputs!
I also think that maybe this Might have been when the sekrei (idk how to spell that) “sank below the waves” and joined the merfolk. Idk, maybe! Could be a fun bit of lore! Esp bc we Just learned about that underwater festival
We already know that the Sekrai were created as an emergency measure to save the population when Water’s truename first getting invoked during a three-way mage battle led to a city falling into the sea. I would assume that the modern festival commemorates that event.
wait, really? from where?
The lore pages / Tumblr
I think “a heart gone mad” just means that he was consumed by his desire to consume the fire seed – to the point that he felt like he had gone mad (and, I mean, for a god to not care about the survival of his own people, he kind of Had gone mad).
I definitely agree that lady is the referenced crucible and that she is probably the author of “Treatise on Soulfire.”
I think that Rakhn blew up physically in flames when his island was destroyed by a volcano bc gods (and I’m gonna phrase this terribly) are a product of their realm and the people who inhabit it. So when his realm was so utterly and drastically changed, he was too. I definitely do not think he became a crucible; I think he just changed very rapidly due to his landscape’s sudden and extreme change.
I think that his people would not have had to shelter in the waters if they all had become crucibles so I think that’s Highly unlikely to have happened. I’m also unsure what that phrase means, but maybe it’s that they became more adapted to Rakhn’s changed state of being??? Idk, I would also love other inputs!
I also think that maybe this Might have been when the sekrei (idk how to spell that) “sank below the waves” and joined the merfolk. Idk, maybe! Could be a fun bit of lore! Esp bc we Just learned about that underwater festival
The “the same change was brewing; the fire growing stronger-more alive” I think refers to them becoming the first Ignans. According to Red’s Tumblr, Rakhn has the oldest Ignan population in the world, who all became fire-adapted after this event.
Woah! Thank you so much for this lore that’s DOPE!
I actually just went to double check, I was only kinda right. They were the first ignans, but that happened earlier. What happened here was them becoming fire mages, and those who were already fire mages becoming “beings of pure fire” (gee, whatever could that be?)
Relevant Tumblr Post: https://www.tumblr.com/comicaurora/782917011370016768/what-was-rakhn-like-pre-volcano-fication
Ohhh! A crucible before Dainic! Maybe Rakhan can help with some cool info!
Also Rahan has officially become my favorite god.
Moar detail, moooaaaaar detail please, I must have more! Is Rakhn “whole enough” then? What was the Fireseed to start with? I must read more…
This is ssso cool. And that priestess… one-eyed, eh?!
Right, here is an interesting thought. We know from the forest god Gleicann that Gods change if their domain is being perceived differently by mortals. Same with the storm guy being empowered by others fear.
So was the volcano erupting the reason for the change in temper, or the perception of the people living around it? Or both, like some sort if feedback loop?
In a different vain, did Rakhn only come into being because mortals perceived the heat giving mountain as a shelter? He makes a point about becoming sentient only after a civilization had formed around him.
My theory is that (and this is based on Longshot97’s post in addition to the presence of Fire’s potential truename in that panel), but I think Fire may have gotten “woken up” from death, similar to Life’s awakening. I have reason to doubt my own theory though, bc – when Alinua was laying on the grass contemplating how lonely Life must feel – I interpreted that to mean that her companions in death had Not been awakened otherwise Life would not potentially have such a lonely existence. Anyways, that was an aside.
I think that it’s possible that Fire’s truename was invoked (again thank you, @Longshot97 bc idk if I would’ve picked up on that by myself), Fire woke up, exploded into a volcano, and then That became its own feedback loop for a little bit. I think that, regardless, the change was definitely Not brought upon by Rakhn’s people changing their view of him (although fantastic point that I hadn’t really considered before) bc people’s minds don’t usually change in the beat of a heart, and certainly not this drastically.
Your last point is super curious to me. I’m very curious if people are the only living beings in Aurora that can “generate” (I forgot the word for it – Erin says while referring to the people who worship the light dragon “they may have _created? manifested?_ a god that superficially fit their beliefs and that offends me on principle” but I don’t remember his exact phrasing for how people generated a god.) But, yeah I definitely could see you being 100% right on that!
I think it would require at least some level of cohesive awareness/belief in a concept. So maybe not all the way to full ‘people’ sapience, but at least a little sapient. Enough to roughly communicate *something* and pass it down.
Ya that’d make sense! Thank you!
As I recall, Red has stated that all the primordials’ truenames have been invoked with only Life awaking as a result due to her higher property of adaptation and survival
“people’s minds don’t usually change in the beat of a heart, and certainly not this drastically.”
I feel like the peaceful mountain they tended animals on suddenly exploding would change someone’s thoughts about it pretty quick, it had to have been terrifying for the pre-Ignans.
I know Red has stated somewhere (extra lore?) that all non-Primordial God’s are created by people’s thoughts and emotions about a place/concept/etc. So Rakhn’s people clearly regarded him and his island much differently after this (likely Fire’s Truename being invoked, creating Ignans, Crucible, Fire mages who can interact with Fire’s soul without using a lacrima interface).
Very true! Very true! I was referring to the fact that the people’s beliefs probably didn’t Cause the explosion / altercation of their god to begin with, but yeah I didn’t think about how much Rakhn Has deeply changed since that day. A shepherd doesn’t strike me as someone who’s so understimulated he’d ask extreme physical harm of someone, but that’s clearly something he does now
It’s possible that the land exploded into fire, the people thought it was Rakhn, changed their beliefs about them, and then he changed extremely rapidly, although I’m obviously more attached to my own personal (obviously correct 😉 hahah) opinion that his realm itself changing impacted him potentially just as much as his people’s changing beliefs, however rapidly they may have changed
I think Rakhn was initially just a god of the island as a physical landmass, and the people that settled the island shaped his identity from a minor nature spirit into an actual god like we see in panel 2; shepherd get-up and all. It seems like the Fireseed sustained a warm oasis in the frozen wastes, and their culture likely depended on rearing animals rather than agriculture.
Then, when Primoridal Fire’s truename was invoked, it excited the Fireseed which caused the volcanic eruption, immediately changing the landscape of Rakhn as well as his people’s perception of him, suddenly changing him into this mad volcanic god. In fact, it was probably the panic of the settlers, who became the first Ignans by sheer exposure to Primordial Fire, which caused this bout of madness. Their god, their land, their home had seemingly spontaneously combusted. Earthquakes, lava, magma bombs. The effect would have been catastrophic and instantaneous, even more so than Zuurith’s flood.
Great take! I was surprised by the fact that the people had the chance to get away at all but I live nowhere near any active or inactive volcano so idk how much time people really have ha
I mean, the eruption itself would have been preceded by tremors, but only by a few seconds. Anyone near the Fireseed would have been killed pretty much instantly, but after the initial explosion, it would have been a case of avoiding streams of lava, the occasional volcanic bomb, and the ash. The ash is the real killer, long-term, but the Ignans might have adapted to survive it.
Ooohohohoooo, the lore we’ve heard on the Tumblr before now beautifully rendered in the comic! Love it!
Where on Tumblr was this lore mentioned?
This post is about the history before Rakhn became a volcano, and a bit about what happened when he did: https://www.tumblr.com/comicaurora/782917011370016768/what-was-rakhn-like-pre-volcano-fication
And this one has some more detail about the consuming the fireseed and the fight with the priestess thing, as well as a lot of other lore for things that happened later. Possible spoilers, maybe Rakhn will mention some of this next page?: https://www.tumblr.com/comicaurora/782437472567246848/why-did-ignans-decide-to-colonise-the-volcano-in
Kendal: A god trying to consume whatever they want held back by a mortal turned to flame. Sounds familiar.
Ralhn: Yeah, but unlike your edgelord dragon friend, me and the priestess kept fighting for three days. He ran and folded in less than three minutes, the coward.
(elsewhere)
Erin: (briefly possessed) WHEN I AM FREE I SHALL DEVOUR YOUR ISLAND FIRST! (un-possessed) … Huh, where did that come from?
I feel sorry for Rakhn, to have changed so much and too quickly to the point they’re almost unrecognisable from their past self; at least Gleicann’s shift sounds reversible and the Northern Wyrm, while a little bummed, seems to be taking it well. Makes me think of Life’s situation, only she may still be grappling with her current existence while he’s had centuries to acclimatise to the new normal.
Ah, I remember reading some tumblr lore about the Fireseed’s priestess and her fight with Rakhn; from that amazing panel 7 I reckon the theory that she was one of, if not the, first Crucible is correct. Crucibles have been proven to be able to fight gods and win since they first appeared; it’s no wonder Caliban wants one under their direction.
(said tumblr lore link here: https://comicaurora.tumblr.com/post/782437472567246848/why-did-ignans-decide-to-colonise-the-volcano-in)
This could also explain why the volcanic Ignans let Falst and Dainix go, especially after seeing Dainix reform. Where the desert Ignans see Crucibles as Demons to be feared and exiled lest they destroy all they love, the volcanic Ignans may instead see an echo of the hero who saved their home from a god turned mad.
That and just capturing them would have made for an anticlimactic end to the story they’re going to tell Rakhn.
Prediction for next week: Maybe one more page of these two talking on Monday, then we reunite with the orange boys and Ruunaser siblings at the cave. Or maybe Red will throw a curveball and show some approaching Paladin patrols to up the danger for the chapter.
Oooh, after reading that lore, and knowing that the Collector is after Kendal… You think there’s any chance she might try to make a second Kendal? She’s got another guardian force of a civilization that she could capture, and these particular Ignans can’t seem to survive without him…
Just say three thousand eight hundred years like a modern god of fire.
Oh man… Rakhn was a mountain long before he was a volcano. And when Fire’s true name was invoked it BROKE him.
Yeah, I never thought about how invoking True Names would affect gods that fell under their domain. I suppose it would depend how closely tied to the elemental you are.
That’s rough, buddy.
oh my golly me it’s Rakhn
oh golly me its an ancient priest
oh my golly me we’re doing it again
oh my golly me we should start a club
If the ancient priestess who battled Rakhan in his madness was indeed the first Crucible, then that might explain why the ignans of the caldera let them walk out of there with a fragment of the fireseed. From their point of view, seeing Dainix transmute from flame to flesh must be like seeing the reincarnation of their founding figure. Like, if he wants a piece of the fireseed, he has a right to it.
in ONLY 3800 years? damn, grandapa…
My bet is that the fireseeds all did this when Fire’s truename was first invoked. We’re seeing the scope and consequences of just one. I believe Red to be reserving the Primordials for cosmic scale stuff. Fire stirring ever so slightly, causing the first volcanoes to form, hollowing out a mountain god, and permanently changing a mortal into a being of fire, seems like the sort of Eldritch stuff Red would make. This does work alongside an old hunch of mine, that each of the elemental primordials is getting some kind of avatar. This, however, does make it seem like it’s the most deliberate and conscious with Life.
Notably, we only have elemental avatars (Alinua defintely, Crucibles probably, and Chosen by the Sky probably) of the three intangible elements, Life, Fire, and Lightning, the ones that lurk and hide within the tangible elements of Stone, Water, and Wind. It does make sense that these three would covet bodies and physical form.
I don’t think we’re getting actual Avatars for the other Primordials. We already have Erin, who’s able to use every type of magic and has no need of ATLA-style teachers, so there’s no funcitonal need to have more mages. I think Red is really making each of her characters unique in the sense of having very different origins for their abilities, rather than the same sort of “Avatar” background copy-pasted with each element.
Primordial Life is the only conscious Primordial, seemingly because the consequence of her Truename being discovered was her self-resurrection (and the Chimeric Plague is a the result of her attempts to directly connect with individual Life Mages). As the embodiment of Life, this makes sense, but there’s no reason for the other Primordials should behave in this way.
Meanwhile, Dainix is a Crucible, and it seems like Crucibles just sort of happen. There could even be a few others kicking around right now, but anywhere in the world. The fact that his power threatens the Dragon is what connects him to the group. Tess and Falst are here for other reasons, so they don’t need to become Avatars of Light or Lightning to justify their presence. And Kendal is Kendal.
I think we have one more party member waiting in the wings, based on sightings in the Trope Talks, and considering the array of magical powers we have already, I actually expect this Seventh Samurai to be magically inert, with any powers coming from some other unique source in Red’s incredibly broad worldbuilding. For instance, maybe they’ll be an Emissary of some kind, like a demigod. Red has confirmed these things happen, so I hope they’ll come into play.
That’s certainly the hope among some in the community, that Sword Lady is an Emissary or a necromancer (or both, they’re not mutually exclusive).
Hold up, could this Fireseed Priestess be the first incarnation of Caliban? Could the God of the Ignans be created when the Ignans were created, with Fire’s Truename being invoked for the first time? Her hand looks like Dainix in Demon form, but we don’t know how Demons happen, could Caliban maybe be a Deified human who survived the volcano eruption, but it changed her?
I doubt it, but that could somehow tie into Caliban’s remark about not liking to use their true face. I would assume it would be more along the lines of them taking that face in remembrance, as the Doctor did to explain Capaldi taking the helm In-Universe (as he had appeared during Tennant’s run in the Pompeii episode as an important character–oh, hey, that’s a neat Easter Egg connection right there). Then again, Kendal isn’t supposed to exist, so who’s to say a mortal couldn’t ascend?
That also may explain why Caliban’s true face and Dainix’s look so similar–perhaps there’s a bloodline connection, if your theory is true.
A mortal can ascend, apparently. There is one god who is a former mortal — and it’s not Caliban. It’s Tahraim, the smith. No one knows how he did it, though, and he’s not answering any questions beyond saying he reforged himself. Caliban, meanwhile, is even older than this event that Rakhn is describing, at over 4,000 years old.
I gotta do more research, apparently!
Man he must have seen some shit
Guys do we ship it? (Rakhn x the priestess) or are we tired of hetbaiting in other media (this is my first Friday since I joined the aurora fandom during the Gap wish me luck guys)
I think we’re tired of it, but we also don’t ship at first sight.
Please tell me we haven’t lost the plot so much that we’re calling m/f shipteasing “hetbaiting”. I mean its a moot point because… wait, I guess there’s no reason to assume a fully-realized crucible *couldn’t* be immortal…
We’re just really used to the trope of “oh look a male and a female! Now kiss”
https://comicaurora.tumblr.com/post/782917011370016768/what-was-rakhn-like-pre-volcano-fication
https://comicaurora.tumblr.com/post/782437472567246848/why-did-ignans-decide-to-colonise-the-volcano-in
These are the tumblr posts talking about the history Rakhn is telling on this page.
One important point: the invoker of Fire was an Ignan, but not one from Rakhn.
So is this sort of a circular therapy session between these two?
Forest Fire, by Oh Geeez Not Again
I’ve got a secret I should tell
My body’s warring with itself
In your mind, birdsong fills the air
In mine the flames lay branches bare
Swore it’d get better, but it won’t get
Hate to be bitter, but it’s baked in
Change in the weather won’t change it
No escaping, no escaping
So don’t stay up for my sake
Let this forest fire take me away
Didn’t mean to make this a reply. That’s what I get for using my phone.
Does anyone else think the volcano eruption kinda look like a face? Just me?
Three-thousand, eight-hundred years of rage gone in five minutes.
This seems like a volcano was dormant for awhile, then erupted, and stayed active.
So maybe this crucible is the same one who went to helm and wrote her treatise on soulfire? This event that Rahkan is talking about was when fire woke, which is also when crucibles first started popping up.
She looks mid transformation here. Also helm being so nearby it shouldn’t be a long trip to that place.
Omg I feel so stupid, what is a crucible?
Whoo I’m back. I got caught up in the middle of Arc 2 Chapter 5 and kept up until it ended, but I missed when Chapter 6 started. When I did find out, I realized I needed to reread at least all of Arc 2 so far since it had been so long, so I’ve done that now. Glad to be back at the comic’s present!
BTW I recently started watching Red’s summaries of Journey to the West and I love how Falst is kind of a more angsty, less OP Sun Wukong.
I’ve been enjoying the visual pun of Rakhn being a chill smoking volcano god, and the sort-of-twist with the fiery volcano guy being very chill, but to manifest as a mountain and then explode into being a volcano… that sure must have been a lot, huh. Good on both Rakhn and whoever that probably-first-crucible priest was for finding a more chill way to exist.
Also MAN this worldbuilding is fascinating.
I mean, volcanoes aren’t known for being sneaky